Which is Higher (& Sooner)?

Mindy:
As we speak we’re settling the final word funding showdown, actual property or shares. Which path will really get you to battle quicker? Whats up, hiya, hiya and welcome to the BiggerPockets Cash podcast. My title is Mindy Jensen and right this moment I’m so excited to introduce you to Amber Lee Grant, who’s going to be becoming a member of me as my co-host whereas Scott is out on his paternity go away. Amber Lee is an expensive buddy of mine. She was featured on episode 449 of the BiggerPockets Cash podcast. She is a fireplace fanatic too and has investing data each actual property and cash and each American and Canadian as a result of she is a twin citizen. She runs Fin Talks, which is a Tuesday night finance dialogue and she or he goes to be so nice as a fill in for Scott. Amber, thanks a lot for becoming a member of me right this moment.

Amberly:
Mindy, what an intro. Thanks a lot for having me. I’m so excited to be spending this time with you just about and serving to you co-host the BiggerPockets Cash podcast. I like all issues finance and actual property. It’s simply been one thing that I’ve loved for the previous, actively 5 years however passively by studying books since I used to be 15 years outdated and I’m not going to say how outdated I’m right this moment. You guys can determine it out over time, however I’m lots older than 15 years outdated now. I’m going to place my finest Scott voice on and inform you BiggerPockets has the purpose of making 1 million millionaires. You’re in the best place if you wish to get your monetary home so as as a result of we really consider that monetary freedom is attainable for everybody irrespective of when or the place you’re beginning. Did I do this proper, Mindy?

Mindy:
Scott’s voice is slightly decrease, however in any other case good. Wonderful. Amberly to start out us off, what’s your present 5

Amberly:
Portfolio? My portfolio is 40% actual property and 60% inventory. Although that’s not all the time been the case, I began off virtually solely investing in actual property whereas I used to be sort of siphoning some cash into the inventory market. So I began off in round 2019 at 75% actual property and 25% inventory over time from about 2019 to 2023 earlier than I purchased my main residence. I might say it stayed fairly excessive in actual property however extra of like a 50 50 after which I purchased a main residence so issues began to maneuver once more into the 40% actual property, 60% inventory due to modifications within the inventory market and different issues.

Mindy:
So Amber Lee, my portfolio is definitely 62% shares, 37% actual property and the remaining one-ish % is money. The runup within the inventory market during the last, nicely not the previous couple of months, however the finish of final 12 months, all of 2024 really received our inventory portfolio up considerably in addition to loads of our syndications offered off. In order they offered off, we received the money and put it again into the inventory market. So it’s been sort of biking by out of actual property into the inventory market as a result of for some time we have been about 50 50 shares in actual property, however my actual property could be very totally different than your actual property. My actual property consists of my main residence fairness as a result of my home is an funding, it’s a reside and flip. So I purchased this for a low quantity. I’m placing some huge cash and time into it and I’m going to repair it up, promote it subsequent 12 months and take all of that money out of the true property bucket and put it into the inventory market. I do loads of personal lending. I’ve a few syndications left and I’ve investments in native small companies that I’ve simply counted as actual property as a result of loads of these are actual property associated.

Amberly:
It appears like over time you’re sort of getting out of the true property recreation. Is that right with reference to what you’re doing?

Mindy:
I feel our actual property and inventory portfolio sort of ebbs and flows, however proper now it’s flowing extra in the direction of shares. You’re proper, as a result of actual property might be extra time intensive than I would really like it to be. I’m. I all the time take into account myself to be the identical age as everyone, however I’m not. I’m considerably older than you, than Scott and I’m eager to declutter my life, so I’m taking hassles out of it and generally actual property might be actually time intensive and I’m searching for very low time dedication investments.

Amberly:
Yeah, I fully perceive that and I feel once we go into what we would like, we’ll positively discuss passive versus energetic revenue sources for hearth as a result of they’re very totally different with regards to shares or actual property. Don’t you agree?

Mindy:
I do agree. I feel that there’s this romantic notion that actual property is so attractive and also you’re going to make a lot cash out of it, and for a very long time that was true, however now we’re on this interval of upper rates of interest and I speak to lots of people who say issues like, oh, I’ve to spend money on actual property, don’t. There’s lots of people who don’t actually have any curiosity in actual property, then don’t spend money on actual property. The most effective time to not spend money on actual property is whenever you’re not all that excited about it. I’ve all the time been invested in actual property, I’ve all the time been excited about actual property. I like the thought, however I get slightly lazy in my outdated age and I simply don’t need to put the time into it anymore. So we each have actual property in our portfolio, however Amber Lee, is that essentially the most effective automobile to get you to fireside quicker in right this moment’s market?

Amberly:
Sure. Actual property, relying the way you do it, can exponentially change your path to monetary independence and it requires loads of sacrifice and onerous work in case you do it the best method. Shopping for a main residence received’t get you there, shopping for a home that you simply’re going to flip. If you’ll find an applicable priced home with an applicable rate of interest, which that’s the massive drawback with right this moment’s market, can actually show you how to transfer on the trail to fireside. So actual property, if you’re doing a little form of home hacking nonetheless or a live-in flip can positively exponentially change your path to fireside although I don’t like it as a result of I’m over it proper now.

Mindy:
Okay, so like we mentioned earlier, Amber Lee and I are nice associates. I’ve been to her home, I’ve seen that she resides by a development zone. I’ve additionally lived by a development zone. I actually like this reply for lots of causes. The reside and flip can generate some huge cash. I’ve made I feel 700,000 tax-free {dollars}, I ought to say greater than as a result of I don’t keep in mind the precise quantity greater than 700,000 tax-free {dollars} over the course of my live-in flipping life, which began in 1996. I like this concept as a result of I don’t need to pay any extra taxes than I’ve to, but additionally this is likely one of the most secure methods to take a position as a result of it’s your own home. If the market crashes, as quickly as you purchase the home, you continue to are going to only reside in it. Your exit technique can simply be proceed to reside there as a result of when you promote it, you’re going to have to seek out someplace else to reside.
Why would you promote it for a loss in case you didn’t must? So the reside and flip technique might be fairly profitable, particularly in case you’re coming right into a interval the place the inventory market goes up. There have been rumblings proper now from the Fed saying that they’re going to consider decreasing charges close to the tip of the 12 months. We’ve inventory market uncertainty and we have now a brand new administration proper now who’s throwing out some totally different modifications. So this might change the financial system that we’re in proper now. When the financial system goes down, the fed desires to bump again up, they’re going to lower rates of interest, which can trigger individuals who have been sitting on the sidelines ready for charges to come back down to leap again into the market, which can carry up the market. So a reside and flip is a superb thought on paper you simply mentioned that you’re over it. Completely hear you. I’m in my final reside and flip my ultimate reside and flip as a result of it is a lot of labor. I don’t suppose there’s one wall on this home that we haven’t touched and we’re not performed but. It’s been 5 years, we took a while off for Covid, however it’s weighing closely on us and we simply need to get it performed.

Amberly:
Yep, fully perceive and such as you mentioned, with modifications in the environment, so inventory market, no matter it may be, generally having that cushion of a main residence that you simply’re dwelling in, that you simply’re flipping or that you’ve roommates can actually make all of that uncertainty really feel slightly extra sure. So it’s a way that you’ve a way of management over your setting and truly over your potential earnings sooner or later simply relying on what you do with the home. I do discover some folks with reside and flips, it’s important to watch out to not produce your own home, make it look higher than every little thing round you. So simply protecting in thoughts that when you’re doing this, there’s a market that you simply’re going to must stroll again into with your own home and so simply guaranteeing that your own home matches the market round you,

Mindy:
I feel that’s a extremely nice level. You don’t need to over enhance as a result of your patrons aren’t going to see that as worth to them. So whereas we have now had a beautiful dialog about live-in flips, I do must disagree together with your perspective and say that for me, I feel the inventory market goes to be a greater automobile to get you to fi quicker. So presumably we’re speaking to any person who’s new to the area and who desires to succeed in monetary independence as quickly as they’ll. Now I do have the benefit that I’ve spoken to about 600 folks about their path to monetary independence and over the course of this podcast, and it appears to me that investing within the inventory market is the quickest option to get you there. So the inventory market has no, you don’t have any bearing on what the inventory market goes to do.
I like the inventory market as a result of it’s a set it and overlook it sort of method of investing. You set your cash in and then you definately wait and I’ve seen the inventory market going up and sure, I’m going to deal with the people who find themselves saying, nicely in fact it’s been going up since 2008. Sure it has, however I’ve been investing since 1998 and it has gone up and down and up and down and up and down, however over the course of time it goes up into the best. In case you zoom in on that over the course of time you’ll see loads of ups and downs, however I think about the American financial system and the energy of American companies and I do consider that the inventory market will proceed to go up into the best. One other factor I need to level out is that if you’re simply discovering the idea of monetary independence, you might be both younger and have a very long time horizon or you might be older and need to get there quicker.
In case you’re older and need to get there quicker, you in all probability have a better revenue than our youthful cohorts. You won’t have a lot time to place into investments like actual property, studying about actual property. It isn’t simply I need to spend money on actual property, I’m going to purchase a home and there we go. There’s much more concerned in that. So I feel that particularly if you’re older, nicely it’s higher for each folks since you’ve received this very long time horizon. You may simply set it and overlook it after which when it’s time to your retirement, there’s your cash and I’m oversimplifying it. Previous efficiency is just not indicative of future beneficial properties, however I do consider that historical past repeats itself. My expensive listeners, as you could or could not know, we have now a brand new BiggerPockets cash publication whereas we’re away, go over to biggerpockets.com/cash publication to subscribe right this moment. Now a fast phrase from our present sponsor, welcome again to the present.

Amberly:
So I perceive your level. I fully get it that to start with it’s a neater method and a really for somebody particularly beginning out whether or not you might be larger revenue or decrease revenue or you’ve time otherwise you don’t have time, it’s a extremely good way simply to get began and to really transfer in the direction of the purpose of monetary independence. The factor although with actual property is that we forgot to speak concerning the rental revenue that may come from actual property. In case you are once more renting out rooms in your own home, not only a flip, after which the place do you place that cash? The inventory market. So then what about tax advantages? So that you’re decreasing perhaps a better revenue tax that it’s important to a decrease one after which funneling that cash into the inventory market. You might need appreciation in your own home whenever you promote it, such as you mentioned, you’re going to funnel it into the inventory market. So for me, I actually do see the inventory market although I perceive your level. A home I feel provides you each.

Mindy:
I like that you simply’re funneling your actual property cash into the inventory market. I’m questioning concerning the time dedication for studying actual

Amberly:
Property. Completely horrible.

Mindy:
Sure.

Amberly:
Okay, I received you on that one.

Mindy:
Scott Trench has mentioned that in case you don’t have is it 200 hours to find out about actual property and actual property investing, then it’s not the funding automobile for you. And if you’re, let’s use our older new hearth follower they usually’re older, they’re set of their methods, they’ve received their life happening, they perhaps have youngsters, perhaps they’ve all these totally different obligations {that a} younger single like 25 simply out of school won’t have the identical obligations. I’m not saying that you simply don’t have obligations, kids simply saying that the older you might be, the extra your life is already set and now it’s essential to discover 200 hours in your day to go and work out actual property. I wish to say you’ve more cash than time. The inventory market may be a better option for them. They may have the benefit of cash.
They only have been spending it paycheck to paycheck form of scenario the place they don’t have lots saved or they’ve the benefit of getting more cash that they’ll plow into the inventory market. They’ve the after 50 atone for their 401k, on their IRA and they may not, like I mentioned earlier than, they simply won’t have the time to place into studying actual property. Actual property is loads of work. You may make some huge cash in actual property. I’m not saying it’s not an important funding. I’m saying that it’s not the one which’s going to get you quickest to fireside. I can see that in case you’re doing it proper, that means you acquire them again when rates of interest have been 3%, that might provide you with a a lot larger enhance than any person who’s doing it proper now. But when any person’s beginning proper now, I’m going to recommend shares additionally. Let’s speak once more about the previous couple of weeks. The inventory market’s been up and down and up and down. There’s some uncertainty within the inventory market proper now. So whenever you’re placing your cash into the inventory market and also you’re shopping for on sale, you’re shopping for when it’s decrease, perhaps you purchase after which it drops slightly bit, you purchase once more when it drops. I consider that the inventory market will ultimately return up. You’re getting all of these beneficial properties with out having to attend for the housing market to catch up.

Amberly:
It’s true, and I’m not altering my place although. I do need to reinforce that actual property isn’t passive. So for me, my time and a spotlight to my portfolio has been exhausting. So after I moved into my second duplex and I did some flipping in there, I needed to get HelloFresh delivered as a result of I didn’t have the time and vitality to even take into consideration meals or go to the grocery retailer. I actually had 15 of my associates on my birthday come and assist out and do an enormous punch checklist of duties. In order that was very nice. Shout out to the Denver Longmont PHI group and I discover such as you mentioned, it’s essential to have some form of data on this as a result of one unhealthy buy occurs suddenly. The inventory market, you may greenback price common in over time. In order that does make sense that you could sort of maintain hitting these lows and get to a excessive or simply proceed to take a position over time.
However one buy the place you purchase your own home 50 over asking and you may’t promote it for that quantity actually can sink you in actual property. So that you do must be educated and such as you mentioned, a ardour for it. So I’ve a ardour for actual property and in order that’s pushed me in the direction of that and pushed me in the direction of my opinion with reference to why I feel somebody can replicate this although it’s harder on this setting. It might occur in case you’re doing it appropriately and that you simply’re discovering the best place with the best realtor, the best metropolis, et cetera. So that you won’t be shopping for in San Francisco although. My sister did simply get a home there and it wasn’t that loopy. So there’s methods to do it. So I perceive what you’re saying. There’s a time dedication, psychological and bodily with regards to actual property and that passive half that you simply’ve gotten to loads of occasions doesn’t occur with out the data to seek out syndications and the best folks or having a property administration firm, however then it’s important to handle them. However somebody beginning out with slightly bit of cash can’t actually get into that stage for some time.

Mindy:
100% agree. The cash could be a massive barrier to entry and there are methods round it. I’m investing in actual property proper now by my reside and flip. So I’m on this property with a proprietor occupant mortgage, in order that’s decrease rate of interest than an investor mortgage remark. It’s important to really reside within the property to get an proprietor occupant mortgage. So don’t say, oh, I’ll simply get an proprietor occupant mortgage and I promise I’ll reside there, wink wink. When actually you’re not planning on that, that’s thought of mortgage fraud, which is a felony, which is as much as 30 years in jail, so don’t do this. However when you’re investing, there are methods round these limitations, however finally you might be nonetheless placing at a minimal 3% down, normally extra like 5% or 10% down in your proprietor occupant property. It’s important to reside there for a 12 months.
As soon as you reside there for a 12 months, you may transfer out and hire the entire property. You may hire by the room in case your metropolis permits whilst you’re dwelling there as an proprietor occupant, you may hire out different rooms to different folks that may show you how to pay your mortgage. We name this home hacking. There’s a lot of other ways to get into actual property, however it’s nonetheless much more costly than entering into the inventory market. I don’t know what the minimal funding within the inventory market is, but it surely’s an entire lot lower than shopping for a home.

Amberly:
I imply the minimal is 5 bucks if it permits it, proper? If you should buy a fractional share. So relying on what platform. Effectively, Mindy, in case you have been to redo your journey, such as you mentioned, you made 700,000 in a flip and so let’s simply say

Mindy:
Over a bunch of flips.

Amberly:
Over a bunch of flips, sorry. Yeah, yeah, in fact. Yep. Let’s simply say not from right this moment, however in case you have been to return, would you go the identical route you probably did right this moment or would you’ve taken a extra passive route?

Mindy:
Oh, option to put me on the spot. I’d in all probability do the identical factor.

Amberly:
Yeah, no,

Mindy:
The reside and flip is such an effective way to generate funds and it comes with guidelines. It’s important to reside within the property for not less than two years. It’s important to reside in it and personal it for 2 out of the final 5 years to get the tax-free capital beneficial properties. Like I mentioned, I’ve made $700,000 over the course of, and that’s not even counting this home. I haven’t offered it but, however I’m going to make one other 300 not less than on this home after I promote it just because I put the time into it. I lived in a dump. I imply it’s not glamorous. I reside in a development zone. My home is just not completed. My youngsters are generally embarrassed of the best way the home appears to be like, which makes me unhappy as a result of it’s an important home, it simply doesn’t have any trimmer on the home windows. That’s not a nasty factor.
However I’ve lived in a home the place I didn’t have a wall I a plastic wall as a result of we have been constructing and had opened up the ceiling on the again half of the home and it was somewhat chilly. My washer pipe froze. I’ve performed loads of dishes within the bathtub as a result of main over, I’m not washing them as I’m taking a shower, however I’ve performed loads of dishes within the bathtub and made loads of crockpot meals within the basement as a result of my kitchen was undone. I’ve performed 10 kitchens, we transformed 10 kitchens, which isn’t tremendous enjoyable whenever you’re within the transform, however you realize what’s loads of enjoyable cashing that massive verify and writing $0 of it to the Uncle Sam.

Amberly:
And I feel one of many issues that we aren’t pertaining to is that labor, the psychological and bodily labor doesn’t essentially have a greenback per hour price. So it may be actually tough to seek out the place you might be spending your precise cash. It may be time that you simply’re spending. And for me, the explanation why I say actual property could also be one of the best ways for somebody to go, however in my scenario now with two younger youngsters, having a development zone isn’t possible anymore. So I must pause on that. As I discussed, stick all my cash within the inventory market that I’m producing after which trip that practice for a short while

Mindy:
Reside in flipping. Won’t be interesting to some folks. I completely get it. I don’t need to reside in a development zone anymore both. Another choice for benefiting from the decrease rate of interest for the proprietor occupant is home hacking. Both shopping for a home with extra bedrooms than you want or a small multifamily, a two unit, three unit, 4 unit can all be bought with a residential proprietor occupant mortgage once more, as long as you’re planning on dwelling within the property for not less than one 12 months. However then in an ideal world, the hire that you simply gather from all the opposite folks ought to cowl all your bills, however even when it doesn’t cowl all your bills, you’re nonetheless decreasing your dwelling prices just by sharing your area with different folks.

Amberly:
Yep. That’s how I began out primarily, but it surely was one thing I changed into an up down duplex and had different folks, particularly short-term leases pay my mortgage. That was actually useful. I don’t know in case you’ve invested outdoors of the state, outdoors of your main residence and acquired an funding property elsewhere. I’ve inherited funding properties outdoors of my native space and inherited that means I pay the mortgage however inherited within the sense that I wouldn’t have gone and acquired these properties. However I do have them they usually’ve labored out fairly nicely to be an extended distance property supervisor, however once more, extra work they usually have been purchased and I took them over when rates of interest have been decrease. So I don’t know if it’s curiosity setting, if I might exit and purchase a home outdoors of my present space or outdoors of a main residence as a realtor. Mindy, would you?

Mindy:
I’d, however in a a lot cheaper space. So Amberly and I each reside in Longmont, Colorado, which is within the Denver suburbs and it’s costly right here. It’s so superior, but it surely’s costly to reside right here. The home costs I feel are like 5 or $600,000 median residence value. Some locations like Indianapolis or Kansas Metropolis and even in Minneapolis, you’re seeing a lot decrease housing costs than what you’re seeing right here. And I can see why any person would need to get into actual property. They’ll’t afford the place they’re domestically, so that they go to certainly one of these decrease priced areas and purchase actual property there. The Ohio rental market is de facto, actually sturdy and housing costs aren’t that costly. So I can see why any person would need to go someplace else. I might simply warning them to first go to the property and go to the world. Just be sure you know what you’re shopping for. I’ve heard some lower than savory tales within the BiggerPockets boards about how any person didn’t exit and see the property forward of time once they lastly employed any person to go and test it out for them. They have been horrified on the state of the property. So simply be sure you know what you’re getting your self into

Amberly:
On the be aware of shares as a result of we’ve gone by the totally different ways in which somebody may spend money on actual property. And once more, I feel I’ve outlined what I feel is essentially the most helpful option to get to fireside. Let’s discuss your shares. What sort of portfolio, this isn’t monetary recommendation, however out of curiosity, what do you consider the totally different portfolios that somebody may have within the inventory market to get them to fireside? We’ve to take one ultimate advert break, however we’ll get into what we expect is the right hearth portfolio after this. Thanks for sticking with us.

Mindy:
So Scott and I’ve been speaking lately concerning the 4% rule, the unique Invoice Benen examine again in 1996 the place he talked about what’s the secure withdrawal charge and he mentioned primarily based on a 60% shares, 40% bonds portfolio, you may pull out 4% modify for inflation yearly and proceed pulling out. You shouldn’t run out of cash in 30 years. And I feel there had a 96% success charge. I don’t know very many individuals who’ve a big or vital bond portfolio. I do know people who find themselves 90% in shares and 10% in bonds or bond like constructions. So Scott could be very lately offered 40% of his inventory portfolio to show it into actual property money flowing actual property that’s appearing as his bond. He isn’t 60 40 shares bonds but or shares bonds slash actual property, however he’s making his method there. I’m in all probability not going to be going into bonds very quickly simply because the inventory portfolio retains performing so nicely. However ideally I feel that, I imply Invoice Benen is way smarter than I’m and he mentioned 70 30, 60 40 inventory bond break up is what it is best to have. So I feel folks ought to begin desirous about this, particularly as they’re getting nearer to retirement.

Amberly:
In the case of shares too, I all the time consider the ebook The Easy Path to Wealth, and after I take into consideration that one, the advice there I feel is extra of a 90 10 shares to bonds and no worldwide as a result of the thought was JL column thought that enormous corporations that we’re investing in, in case you spend money on the s and p 500 are already touching worldwide as a result of they’re international corporations. However I do know that recommendation has lately modified. So the thought is also your inventory portfolio can comprise of not just some form of s and p 500 index fund, however presumably some worldwide now as a result of like we mentioned, previous efficiency doesn’t essentially point out future efficiency although I don’t think about the highest 500 corporations within the US going all underneath. So I feel we’re secure there, however that worldwide piece is one thing we haven’t thought of prior to now and has been outperforming the s and p 500 and doing nicely. So I’m curious in case you would begin to transfer any of your portfolio right into a extra worldwide fund to even that out.

Mindy:
Personally, no, however I can see why any person would need to contact into worldwide funds as a result of they’ve been doing so a lot better. Once more, we’re in a interval of uncertainty proper now with the inventory market and I truthfully don’t know sufficient about worldwide funds to talk intelligently on them. I might defer to the jail Collins remark of he doesn’t go into worldwide funds as a result of these international corporations are already sort of touching internationally. So I might in all probability not do this, however I may see how any person would need to and if they’ve curiosity in it, I might encourage them to look into it additional. Do loads of analysis. It is a enjoyable present the place we’re speaking about cash, however finally it’s your cash, so you need to be doing analysis and educating your self outdoors of simply listening to what Mindy mentioned on that present that one time.

Amberly:
Agreed fully.

Mindy:
Sure. I’ve an attention-grabbing statistic right here, Amber Lee. I feel it’s actually, actually enjoyable to notice that 87% of higher revenue Individuals personal shares adopted by 65% of center revenue Individuals and 25% of decrease revenue people. It’s the basic and confirmed option to accumulate wealth, larger threat perhaps since you don’t have any management over what’s occurring together with your shares, but additionally larger passive rewards.

Amberly:
I might agree with that over time.

Mindy:
Okay. Amber Lee, it appears like we each recognize each elements, actual property and inventory market, however we have now a distinction of opinion the place to start out In case you are ranging from scratch and I feel that’s okay, I feel your opinion is legitimate. I feel my opinion is legitimate. What I need to encourage our listeners to do is whoever you agree with, whichever path you select to go, begin from a place of schooling and understanding what it’s you’re getting yourselves into For the true property biggerpockets.com or biggerpockets.com/boards is a superb place to start out. Learn by a number of the questions individuals are asking, look and see the issues that they’re having. Are you going to have the ability to deal with these issues your self or are these going to make you say, Ooh, actual property’s not for me, then come over to my aspect and take a look at shares.

Amberly:
Yeah, I feel that’s an important factor. Schooling first, take motion afterwards. And there are some horror tales about actual property on the market. I don’t know many horror tales about shares apart from in case you’ve pulled out the mistaken time and by no means went again into the market. So simply be sure you can cope with somebody having a full on brawl in your basement smashing espresso tables and TVs. Sure, that has occurred to me, however hey, it was value it

Mindy:
For that candy cashflow and low tables might be

Amberly:
Changed. That’s precisely it. Yep. So it was positively well worth the journey for me and it might or might not be well worth the journey for you and as Mindy mentioned, the inventory market is an excellent place as nicely. You may’t go mistaken both method.

Mindy:
Amber Lee, this was a lot enjoyable chatting with you right this moment. I’m so excited to have you ever slipping into Scott’s area and being my co-host over the following few weeks.

Amberly:
I’m so glad to be doing this with you, Mindy, and although we are able to disagree on issues, we’re nonetheless associates.

Mindy:
We’re nonetheless associates. Sure. Alright, that wraps up this episode of the BiggerPockets Cash podcast. She is Amber Lee, grant. Amber Lee. The place can folks discover out extra about you?

Amberly:
Amber Lee grant.com.

Mindy:
And I’m Mindy Jensen saying, see you quickly. Blue Moon, I.