Making a BIG Change to My Portfolio

Dave:
I’m making a giant change to my investing portfolio. I’m promoting shares and I’m doubling down on investing in actual property, however most likely not in the way in which you suppose. A number of months in the past, originally of January, I defined my upside period framework for investing in 2025. It’s all about discovering offers that work fairly effectively immediately, however have the potential to essentially develop and dump rocket gas in your portfolio over the following couple of years. And immediately I’m going to share my upside period Q2 replace, together with some strikes that I’m making myself primarily based on every thing that’s taking place within the financial system proper now. As a result of as you’ve most likely heard, there’s a ton of volatility throughout shares, crypto, and nearly each different asset class. However personally, I see alternative to make the most of these situations utilizing actual property investing. And immediately I’ll clarify how I’m personally doing that proper now.
Hey everybody, it’s Dave Meyer, head of Actual Property Investing right here at BiggerPockets. Welcome to immediately’s present. In case you’ve been listening to this point this 12 months, you’ve most likely heard me discuss loads about what I imagine is a form of new actuality in actual property investing, which I’m calling the Upside period. And if you wish to get the total framework that I’m utilizing to explain actual property proper now and to explain my very own deal resolution making, you may take a look at Present 10 66. It aired on January sixth, 2025, and it goes into deep element about every thing I’m eager about. So when you missed that episode, I simply need to maintain listening to this one proper now. Right here’s the gist of the framework and the way I’m eager about issues from 2013 to 2022 is what I name the Goldilocks period. It was principally this good conglomeration of situations that made actual property investing actually enticing, comparatively straightforward and tremendous profitable.
These are issues like costs taking place through the nice recession. Whereas rents saved rising, we had low rates of interest and by 2013, lending exercise had began to renew. So it was fairly straightforward to get a mortgage and purchase properties at a comparatively good worth, and that continued for like 10 years and lots of people acquired actually rich and it was nice for the whole actual property investing trade. Then as everyone knows, 2022 hit rates of interest began to skyrocket and now we have skilled what I might contemplate a correction or a recession in actual property. And I need to be clear that I’m not saying that costs have gone down or crashed. I feel there’s some confusion once I say generally that there’s form of a recession in actual property as a result of the phrase recession and what I’m describing proper now actually describes the general financial exercise of our trade and that indisputably has gone down from 2021 to 2024, we noticed almost a 50% drop within the variety of properties which might be purchased and bought.
So simply by that measure alone, now we have been in a recession. We’ve additionally seen largely costs have slowed down loads, they’re nonetheless rising, however they’ve slowed down loads. Lease development has slowed down beneath long-term averages and in a number of areas and a number of asset courses they’ve truly declined. And so it’s been a extremely powerful couple of years in the whole actual property trade in 20 23, 20 24, and clearly the second half of 2022 as effectively. However now as we flip the web page and go into 2025, I feel we’re coming into a very new period for actual property investing and it’s what I name the upside period. And I need to be clear, and I feel that is actually necessary, that this new upside period has a number of nice alternatives and there’s going to be nice methods for actual property traders, massive, small, inexperienced, tremendous skilled to revenue and profit from this new period, however it’s going to be completely different from earlier period.
It’s not going to be prefer it was from 2013 to 2022 when every thing was simply tremendous apparent and sort of straightforward. As an alternative, you’re going to must be somewhat bit extra artistic and I feel look somewhat bit additional into the longer term to know the way to generate the very best returns. Alright, so that’s my overview of the Upside period and as I discussed on the prime of the present, what we’re going to enter immediately is a few strikes that I’ve personally made in my very own portfolio to make the most of this new period and the alternatives which might be going to be current and worthwhile going ahead. So earlier than I clarify although what I’ve truly achieved within the final couple of weeks, I need to form of provide you with an perception into my technique and this framework that I’ve been utilizing for deal choice. So my private technique within the upside period is to search out offers that make sense immediately.
I don’t need to have something that’s dropping cash. I need them to have the ability to break even inside the first 12 months of possession. And I do know that break even doesn’t sound like essentially the most attractive factor, however let me simply clarify to you why I take into consideration this fashion. At first, I’m not speaking about that social media break even the place individuals simply take their lease revenue, subtract their mortgage fee and say that’s cashflow. That’s not it. Actual breakeven, you need to be speaking about CapEx, upkeep turnover, price vacancies. So I’m saying that you simply break even and nonetheless generate precise optimistic cashflow after correctly accounting for each expense and sustaining a money reserve. And if you’ll be able to try this, although it doesn’t sound as attractive as what lots of people say their offers are, I nonetheless suppose that is truly higher than a inventory market return as a result of let’s simply say breakeven, you’re getting a 1% money on money return.
5 years in the past, nobody would purchase a 1% money on money return deal, however on this upside period, I’ll inform you why I might at the least contemplate it. I’m not saying I might purchase something that breaks even. Lemme simply provide you with an instance. In case you had been to generate a 1% money on money return, that’s a little bit of a return, nice. However you then most likely get two to three% return simply from amortization that’s paying off your mortgage. Then when you get appreciation even of two% with leverage, that may be one other three or 4% upside and return in your funding. After which tax advantages are often one other 1% return as effectively. So whenever you put all these issues collectively, you’re speaking a couple of seven to 10% whole return throughout your whole funding. And that’s not cashflow. I needed to make that clear. That could be a mixture of constructing fairness and cashflow and tax advantages, however whenever you have a look at that return profile, I feel it’s at the least pretty much as good or probably higher than what you get within the inventory market as a result of when you look traditionally, the inventory market returns someplace between eight and 10% annualized return.
So we had been speaking about only a break even actual property deal doing in addition to the typical inventory market 12 months. And that is what you need to be evaluating your offers to as a result of yeah, this won’t be pretty much as good because it was in 2015, this good Goldilocks golden period of actual property, however as an actual property investor, you should be eager about useful resource allocation and the place you might be placing your cash. And admittedly, none of us can put our cash right into a 2015 actual property deal. You might both put your cash in a financial savings account, you may put it into bonds, you may put it into crypto, you may put it within the inventory market or you may put it into personal actual property. And so I encourage you, whether or not you make the identical choices as I do or not, these are all subjective, however I actually encourage you to consider your investing choices this fashion.
The place are you going to place your cash immediately to greatest enhance your monetary future? Don’t be evaluating immediately’s actual property offers to historic offers that will by no means be coming again. So that’s the first a part of the framework. So don’t get me fallacious, I’m not saying simply exit and purchase any form of break even deal that’s simply the primary standards for offers that I’m seeking to purchase. It has to at the least break even as a result of that units my ground the minimal for my funding might be doing about in addition to the inventory market give or take a few factors. And it additionally clearly is dependent upon how the inventory market performs that 12 months. However then the second a part of the framework is absolutely the necessary, and I feel the thrilling half is the place you should determine two or three, what I name upsides per deal that might take these common breakeven offers from strong and on par with the inventory market to glorious and one thing that’s going to outperform the inventory market effectively into the longer term.
As a result of sure, I do need my deal to do in addition to the inventory market in 12 months one, however let’s be trustworthy, actual property investing is extra work. It’s extra stress than proudly owning inventory and shopping for an index fund. And so I want components of my deal to supply upside far and away above what I’m incomes in an index fund. And that’s why I must search for these two or three upsides. And simply as a reminder, a few of these upsides are principally ways in which I can take that seven to 10% return and switch it from one thing that’s simply a 12 to fifteen% return. And these are issues like investing within the path of progress, searching for zoning upside the place it could possibly add a unit, add a bed room, add an A DU. That is issues like discovering locations the place there are provide constraints and rents are more likely to go up.
These are all completely different upsides. And whenever you have a look at the framework altogether, if you’ll find a deal that’s breakeven after which you’ve two, three, perhaps even 4 of those form of little bets that you’re putting in your property, if one or two of these bets come true, you then’re going to take this from a median actual property deal to an incredible actual property deal over the course of a number of years. And though this would possibly sound a bit completely different than how different individuals make investments, that is sort of the way it’s at all times labored, proper? You might be at all times looking for offers which might be going to develop and enhance over time. I simply suppose it’s notably necessary proper now on this upside period to set your expectations appropriately for what offers are going to appear to be whenever you purchase them after which calculate how the return goes to develop over time and deal with that as a result of actual property investing frankly simply is a long-term sport and that’s how you actually should be eager about it in immediately’s day and age. Alright, so that’s the upside error and the recap of the framework that I’m personally utilizing. And we do must take a fast break, however after we come again, I’m going to share with you the strikes that I personally made in Q1 to set myself up for much more upside in Q2 and past. We’ll be proper again.
Welcome again to the BiggerPockets podcast. We’re right here immediately speaking concerning the upside period and earlier than the break I form of did a recap of the upside period and my framework for purchasing offers right here in 2025. Now I need to present you simply with a private replace and the way I’ve been eager about my very own portfolio, the strikes that I made again in QQ one and the strikes that I’m aspiring to make and the way I’ve set myself up for development by way of the remainder of 2025. So Q1, I’ve been engaged on one larger deal. I’m doing a dwell and flip, which I’m tremendous enthusiastic about, however I’m not going to get an excessive amount of into that immediately. I’ve made some provides on a few rental properties, however I haven’t been capable of pull the set off on any of that but. However I did make a giant transfer in Q1 that I feel goes to essentially set me up for fulfillment for the remainder of 2025.
And I need to share it with you as a result of I feel it explains a number of of the completely different ways in which you may earn returns within the upside period and the way I’m eager about positioning myself for the long run. And I feel a number of the concepts and ideas that I take advantage of to make this resolution and to make this transfer might useful to you. So let’s speak about what I did. And first I simply need to say that I need to share this with you within the spirit of transparency, however this isn’t private recommendation on what it is best to do. You bought to consider it, your personal private state of affairs, your personal threat tolerance, your personal asset allocation. However with all these caveats, I mentioned what I did was promote about 25% of my equities portfolio principally that means my inventory portfolio. Now, I didn’t promote any of my tax advantaged accounts.
I didn’t promote something in an IRA or 401k. These are accounts that I intend to maintain into my sixties and seventies, not pay a penalty and use that for long-term wealth and my long-term retirement. However I bought about 25% of my regular brokerage accounts. Now, I do know that I’m somewhat bit completely different than a few of my associates that I deliver on the present right here like James Dard or Kathy Feki who’ve nearly one hundred percent of their internet value in actual property. I’m not like that. I estimate that my equities, my inventory portfolio is sort of a third to perhaps 40% of my whole internet value. And when you do, the mathematics 12 months is say, has bought about 25% of that, that’s like eight to 10% of my whole internet value, which is a reasonably large transfer for me at this level in my investing profession.
So the query is then why did I do that? Do I feel the inventory market goes to crash or what’s occurring right here? I’m not a inventory knowledgeable. I do observe it fairly carefully, however I’m not so assured in myself that I feel that I can time the market and say when and if the inventory market goes to crash. However once I have a look at the actually large image and I zoom out of every thing that’s been occurring in several asset courses throughout the financial system for the final decade, the final 20 years, I feel that shares are going to underperform within the coming years. I don’t know if which means there’s going to be a crash after which a rebound. I don’t know if which means they’re simply going to develop very slowly over the following couple of years. However whenever you have a look at a number of the most basic methods of valuing the inventory market and projecting its efficiency ahead, what you see is that shares are very, very costly.
And there are a number of alternative ways that you may worth the inventory market, however two that I personally like to have a look at, one is known as the buffet rule, which is a ratio of the nation’s whole GDP to the worth of the inventory market, the full worth of the inventory market. And by that metric, shares are very, very costly proper now there’s one other quite common method of valuing shares known as PE ratios or worth to earnings ratio, which principally compares the worth of 1 share of inventory to the full earnings of that firm. And when you have a look at each of those metrics of evaluating inventory market or a number of different of them, they’re very, very excessive. And former occasions after we look traditionally when equities values had been this excessive, the inventory market underperformed and in lots of instances it has underperformed 4 years and generally that’s three years, generally that’s 5 years, generally that’s 10 years.
And once more, that doesn’t imply the market is essentially going to crash. It simply means we simply had two years in a row the place the s and p 500 went up greater than 20%. That’s superb. It was nice. I used to be very blissful to be closely invested within the inventory marketplace for the final two years, however I simply don’t suppose these returns will be maintained. I feel that the very best positive factors have been had, and this isn’t essentially even a commentary on the financial system as an entire, though there may be recession threat. Don’t get me fallacious. That is simply form of an evaluation of earlier durations the place inventory valuations acquired this excessive and what occurs after. In order that’s my have a look at the inventory market. And this form of relates again to what I’ve been speaking about with actual property, proper? My philosophy about investing is discovering property which might be comparatively protected and low threat which have upside.
I simply don’t see that a lot upside within the inventory market proper now, even when the market doesn’t crash and there was a number of volatility currently, however even when the market stays near the place it’s, I simply don’t see it going up that rather more within the subsequent couple of years as a result of it’s already simply so costly. You’re most likely questioning, can’t you make the identical case for actual property? Actual property is tremendous costly, proper? Effectively, not likely, or at the least that’s not the way in which that I have a look at it as a result of yeah, actual property is absolutely costly proper now, nevertheless it’s attributable to actually completely different points. We received’t get totally into that, however when you take heed to the present, you most likely know that a number of the explanation that actual property is so costly proper now’s largely attributable to a provide problem. There’s a lack of whole housing stock in the USA.
It’s getting even an increasing number of costly to construct, and that has actually pushed up actual property costs over the past decade or extra. The opposite factor that adjustments the way you consider the actual property market versus the inventory market is that housing is a necessity, proper? Folks must dwell in these house, nobody wants inventory. So when inventory market will get unstable or actually costly, individuals might simply promote them with out actually any implications for his or her fast high quality of life. That isn’t true within the housing market. One other issue with the housing market is that 70% of people that promote their properties go on to rebuy. So that you wouldn’t simply go promote your private home since you thought costs would possibly go down a pair proportion factors as a result of then you would need to go purchase into opposed market situations as a substitute of what occurs within the inventory market the place individuals unload when issues get too unstable or too costly. With actual property, you may simply do nothing so long as you’re capable of make your mortgage funds, you may simply select to not promote. And so although it makes the dynamics and the basics of the inventory market and the housing market actually, actually completely different. So to sum this all up, the way in which I’m seeing it’s that there’s much less upside in shares and equities proper now than I see in actual property. That’s it. We do must take a fast break everybody, however we’ll be proper again in only a minute.
Welcome again to the BiggerPockets podcast. We’re right here speaking concerning the upside period and how one can make the most of it right here in 2025. So let’s speak about these upsides in actual property which have me excited and making these strikes and really did an entire episode on 10 completely different upsides that you should utilize in your personal offers. That one got here out on January twenty seventh. It was present 10 75, so you may go examine that out. However a few the upsides that I’m personally searching for are one lease development. I’ve made the case prior to now and we’ll proceed to that, though I feel the primary half of 2025, perhaps all of 2025 might need sluggish lease development. There’s a extremely good case that lease development goes to choose up from 2026 going ahead. The second is path of progress and constructing in areas the place there may be a number of infrastructure and cash being invested.
The third is worth add. These are issues like doing the burr technique, flipping or simply discovering methods so as to add capability to properties. The fourth is zoning upside the place including ADUs or further models on properties and naturally different issues like proprietor occupied methods, which I’m already doing as a result of doing this dwell and flip this 12 months. So provided that and provided that I simply bought a giant chunk of my inventory portfolio, how am I going to reinvest that into actual property? As a result of frankly, the explanation that I like actual property and I make investments primarily in actual property and that I’m making this transfer is as a result of long-term, my long-term purpose is to get sufficient cashflow that I can dwell off of. And so at any time when I see that there’s form of a chance to reposition a few of my cash right into a asset that’s going to construct me long-term cashflow, that’s form of what I’m going to do, even when it’s not going to be the very best cashflow proper now.
However as I mentioned originally of the present, I truly haven’t been capable of make any rental property offers work to this point right here in 2025. I’ve supplied on a couple of, I’ve been taking a look at loads. I’ve underwritten fairly a couple of offers, however I haven’t been capable of make any work and that’s okay. I don’t wish to push it. If the offers aren’t there, I’m not going to purchase them. However as a result of I do suppose market situations are form of ripening for higher offers to be on the market, I’m principally going to separate the cash that I pulled out of the inventory market into two various things. At first, I’m going to take 50% of what I bought and put it right into a cash market account. In case you haven’t heard of a cash market account, it’s very comparable. He’s a really comparable rate of interest to a excessive yield financial savings account.
There’s some variations that I received’t get into, however principally I can earn 4, 4.5% on my cash proper now, and I like that for 2 causes. First is that it’s extremely liquid when you haven’t heard this time period earlier than, liquidity by way of investing principally simply means how simply you may flip an asset or an funding into money and cash market accounts are just like high-yield financial savings accounts. You might simply simply spend that cash. And that’s necessary to me as a result of I’m going to be actively searching for offers, rental properties, and I’m truly beginning to have a look at and underwrite multifamily offers proper now, and I need to have that cash rapidly out there to me in case that I discover that deal, which I anticipate finding within the subsequent couple of months. I need that cash out there in order that I can act rapidly. Sure, within the inventory market, you may promote it comparatively rapidly and you may pull your cash out inside per week or two, however I don’t need to be able the place I’ve to promote my inventory on a day that it occurred to go down two or 3%, proper?
That might be horrible. So I as a substitute selected to promote 25% of my portfolio on a really perfect day after which put that cash into this cash market account in order that one, I’m incomes greater than inflation, so I’m nonetheless incomes an actual inflation adjusted return and I’ve extremely liquid property that I can use to purchase actual property offers within the subsequent couple of months. And truthfully, a 4% return proper now appears to be like fairly good to me in comparison with how unstable the equities market is. And I might be fallacious, the inventory market might go up 5%, it might go up 10%, however proper now, the chance adjusted return of equities versus a cash market account, I’m not complaining a couple of cash market account, particularly as a result of it has the secondary advantage of giving me liquidity. So that’s the very first thing that I’m doing with that cash that I pulled out of the inventory market.
Now, the second factor I’m doing, and I do know that is most likely going to be controversial for some individuals listening to this podcast, however I’m going to make use of it to pay down my mortgage on my dwell and flip that I’m going to be transferring into right here in Q2. I do know what individuals are saying, it is best to leverage as a lot as potential or that’s going to decelerate my scaling. However simply give it some thought this fashion, for each single greenback that I pay into my mortgage and I don’t leverage as a result of I might be taking out a mortgage at let’s say 6.5%, I’m principally incomes a six level half p.c return on that funding. And once more, I might be fallacious, however I don’t suppose the inventory market goes to get that over the following couple of months. And within the meantime, I can cut back my dwelling bills by like $1,500 or $2,000 a month.
That’s some huge cash that I will be saving, including to my liquidity, including to my stockpile of money that I can use for actual property. And at the least to me in my evaluation of various asset courses on the market, it takes a number of threat off the desk. And to me, it’s worthwhile to do that on this investing local weather, and perhaps I’ll do that for years if situations keep the identical and I’ll simply maintain a extremely low mortgage on my major residence. However my expectation is that I’ll most likely simply refi this and perhaps I’ll refi it three months from now or six months from now. It is perhaps years from now, but when charges come down or I see a deal that’s higher than that 7% money on money return, I get by paying down my mortgage, I’ll refi and I’ll simply use that cash to gas my portfolio once I suppose situations are higher.
So to me, this strikes simply is smart. I don’t see an enormous quantity of upside within the inventory market proper now, and so I’m taking some cash and incomes a optimistic return and giving myself liquidity so as to purchase actual property within the second half of the 12 months, and I’m taking different cash and simply lowering my dwelling bills, taking threat off the desk, and that cash doesn’t have to remain locked in my major residence eternally. It is going to keep in there till I discover different alternatives to make use of that cash, whether or not that’s three months, six months, or three years from now. So personally, that’s what I’m doing, however as I mentioned on the prime, that is primarily based on me, my objectives, my present useful resource allocation, my learn of the state of affairs. However the query is what must you be doing with your personal portfolio? My first piece of recommendation is to guage the chance adjusted returns of various asset courses your self.
In case you haven’t heard this time period earlier than, threat adjusted return, it principally means you may’t simply have a look at the upside potential of each single deal. You even have to have a look at how dangerous that exact asset is as a result of this falls on a spectrum, proper? On the low finish of the chance adjusted return spectrum might be bonds or cash market account, like what I’m investing in proper now. These are very low threat, however very low return choices for holding your cash. On the opposite finish of the spectrum, you most likely see cryptocurrency the place you’ve alternatives to double your cash or triple your cash, however the threat of you dropping a number of that cash can be actually excessive. And so you need to form of have a look at every asset class, every potential funding on this lens. How doubtless is it for me to earn a very good return? How doubtless is it that I’m going to lose a few of my cash?
That calculation, that thought course of is threat adjusted returns and albeit, determining and considering by way of threat adjusted returns, it’s not as straightforward because it was once 5 years in the past. There’s simply no method I might’ve paid down my mortgage as a substitute of shopping for one other rental, simply no method. I by no means would’ve considered doing it. However immediately, once I reevaluate threat adjusted returns, it makes a number of sense. And the fact of that is you actually just do have to do that for your self. There’s no goal analysis of what the very best threat adjusted returns are, proper? You would possibly see enormous upside within the inventory market proper now and suppose that I’m loopy to see threat there or threat of underperformance there. That’s completely as much as you for me, my private understanding of markets, my threat tolerance, my threat capability, my long-term objectives, my present cashflow, it’s simply completely different from yours.
And so you should take into consideration this your self. The second factor you should do after you form of look across the market and assess the chance adjusted returns and completely different choices on your cash is to contemplate your objectives. Do you need to be actually energetic in your investments? Do you need to be managing and eager about your cash day by day? If that’s the case, you may doubtlessly take into consideration reallocating into completely different asset courses, but when not, when you’re extra the kind of one who’s mentioned it and overlook it, I simply need to purchase index funds, that’s completely what you ought to be doing. You don’t should be doing what I’m doing. I’m comparatively energetic in managing my portfolio, and so I’m at all times eager about these offers. I’m at all times researching these offers. If this isn’t one thing that you simply do or need to do, then simply depart your cash and your allocations as they’re.
The third and last item that you ought to be asking your self as you’re eager about the way to make the most of the upside period as we go into Q2 is would you truly do one thing with the cash, proper? In case you had been eager about promoting equities or perhaps you’re eager about promoting a rental property or some actual property, take into consideration what you’ll realistically do with that cash. As a result of when you had been going to promote your index funds, for instance, after which simply do nothing with that cash, you’re going to place it in a daily financial savings account and never earn some huge cash, and also you’re simply form of doing it out of concern, you’re most likely higher off, at the least traditionally talking, simply preserving your cash within the inventory market and letting it compound over the following a number of years. But when as a substitute, you’re reallocating as a result of you’ve a plan to right away earn higher returns, otherwise you need to place your self to make the most of alternatives that you simply see coming within the subsequent couple weeks, subsequent couple months, subsequent couple of years, I feel that’s a very completely different factor as a result of bear in mind, when you do promote actual property otherwise you do promote shares, you’ll must pay taxes on it.
There are repercussions for that. This isn’t similar to, oh, I can take my cash out of the inventory market, see what occurs, after which I’ll simply put it again in if it doesn’t work out. I imply, you may try this, however that’s not a very good transfer since you’ll have paid taxes unnecessarily. You must have a plan on your cash. So my three items of recommendation as we head into Q2 on this upside period are, once more, one, consider completely different asset courses for threat adjusted returns. And that’s not simply inventory market versus actual property. Try this for particular person actual property asset courses. Take into consideration threat adjusted returns for single household properties versus small multifamily versus flipping versus short-term leases. And assess when you suppose there are good alternatives, and you probably have the best ready for the place you’re placing your cash relative to the second step, which is your objectives.
So once more, have a look at these threat adjusted returns, then contemplate your objectives and take into consideration you probably have your cash in the best place given these two issues. After which lastly, actually simply intestine examine your self and ensure that if you’ll make a transfer, if you’ll reallocate capital, reallocate a few of your time within the upside period, just remember to’re truly going to observe by way of on it as a result of form of doing a transfer like this halfheartedly might be going to go away you worse off than whenever you began and simply worse off than when you simply did nothing. So once more, do these threat adjusted return assessments, contemplate your objectives, after which just remember to even have a plan to do one thing together with your cash. That’s true when you’re reallocating assets or when you’re simply making an attempt to place extra precept into your general portfolio right here within the upside period.
Alright, everybody, that’s my upside period replace for Q1 and providing you with some ideas about the place I’m getting in Q2. I might love to listen to what you all are doing together with your alternatives for upside as we enter Q2. So when you’re watching right here on YouTube, ensure that to let me know within the feedback. However when you’re listening on the podcast, hit me up on both Instagram or on BiggerPockets and let me know what you’re eager about. Thanks all a lot for watching and listening to this episode of the BiggerPockets podcast. I’m Dave Meyer. We’ll see you subsequent time.