How to Get an Off-Market Seller on YOUR Side

David Greene:
What’s going on everybody? Welcome to the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast. I’m David Green, and today I’m joined by Rob Abba Solo and we are handing our mics over to bring you a special bonus episode.

Rob:
And this episode is all about how to turn a no into a yes. This is a skill that’s super crucial if you’re wholesaling or finding deals by directly contacting potential sellers, but this skill of getting past no and understanding the psychology behind it is really useful for any investor

David Greene:
That’s right and nobody turns a no into a yes better than our friends of deal machine. So today you’re going to hear a conversation from the Deal Machine Real Estate Investing podcast, Dave Letgo, when his co-host Ryan Haywood will crack the code on how to handle the top seller objections with a firecracker guest who’s quite the negotiation

Rob:
Ninja. And make sure you stick around until the very end of this episode because we’ll bring you an inspirational clip from the BiggerPockets podcast archives and how mastering the skill of getting sellers to say yes changed one investor’s career. But right now, let’s turn it over to David and Ryan

David Greene:
From David and Rob. Here’s David and Ryan,

Speaker 3:
The deal machine, REI podcast, everything you need to know to get started in real estate investing.

David Lecko :
And so for the first objection that we’re going to roll into today is you’re in the seller’s house and they’re like, well, I actually need to talk to my husband before I make this decision, or it could be really anyone else. And I was thinking about the deals that I’ve done. I’ve created a process that’s helped 10,000 people close deals in all 50 states. Of course, my co-host Ryan Haywood has done 400 deals since 2019 after he quit his job. So between the three of us, we’ve encountered a lot of objections, but I have to say none of my deals have actually had two decision makers. Every single one of my deals has been a single decision maker. So Jenny, welcome to the show. I’m sure that you’re actually thinking, wow, David, if you’ve never done a deal from somebody that had two decision makers, you’re probably not doing as many deals as you should be doing. I’m leaving money on the table.

Jennie:
No, I mean, thank you for having me here. I definitely think that you get what you can and you do what you can with what you have and my experience with this customer, typically kind of the response that I would go to is, Hey, Mrs. Johnson, usually when I get met with I need to talk to my husband. Nice way of saying no. It’s almost always one of three things. It’s the price, it’s the process, or it’s me and I did something wrong. Did I miss something or did I do something wrong? I want to stay behind the customer obviously and continue digging. I’m going to dig my heels in because more often than not, this is smokescreen objection.

David Lecko :
What if they are married though and they actually do need to talk to their spouse? What would you say in that case?

Jennie:
So in that case where I’m going to do my initial objection talk track first and just ensure that this really is a main deal killer, this is really a really intentional conversation. I would say in my experience, Mrs. Jones, more often than not most couples have had a conversation like this before. Speaking with someone like me, how do you think that this second conversation is going to be different? How will the next conversation be different? And when you talk to your husband in the past, what did those conversations even sound like? And when you have that conversation, what questions do you think that he’s going to ask so that we can talk about those first?

David Lecko :
Smart, so basically you can turn the objection into them telling you how they think the conversation would go if they were present.

Jennie:
Absolutely, and I want to go through their past experience. It’s going to bring up the emotions of those past conversations, especially between a husband and a wife. I want to know how she felt about those conversations in the past, because more often than not, it’s an emotional situation. It’s not usually great communication. It’s not something super fun for people to go through. And I do, I want to hear her perspective or his perspective on how does he think the conversation’s going to go with his wife this time and how is she going to feel about it and what’s she going to think? And I want to prepare him and get him thinking about what are the steps he’s going to have to take going through this with his spouse, with her spouse.

David Lecko :
Let’s say you walk through those scenarios and then they actually all are positive and you’re like, well, would you try to get it under contract at that point or would you still schedule a time? So they are both together.

Jennie:
I think I would say, listen, I get the feeling that you’re 99% ready to make this decision, but there’s 1% holding you back. Is the story that I’m telling myself true or do you really think that your husband’s going to say no? And if he says no, what are you going to do? Then how can I support you? If he says no, what support do you need? If he says no, that’s the better question. What support are you going to need? If he says no,

Ryan:
Here’s something I want to ask onto this as well. What do they say when you say that? What’s a response if you say, Hey, what can I do better on the next conversation or what’s that going to be like? What do they typically say? What’s that sound like? What’s their response to that?

Jennie:
I mean, usually it’s a little uncomfortable for them, right? They’re like, well, I mean I’ve had this conversation before. If they start to get uncomfortable, you probably should get excited because it is a smokescreen, right? If they’re uncomfortable and not confident, we’ve identified this is a BS objection, and so I just, I guess there’s if then if they get uncomfortable, then I’m going to continue pressing because, and I’m going to address the elephant in the room. Hey, I think this is your polite way of saying no, I’m going to address it and I’m not scared because I’m confident that we have a solution that will meet their needs and that could help them take their next step. So if they get uncomfortable, I’m going to lean in. If they’re confident in their responses with me, I’m going to take it as truth and I’m going to offer my support. So they’re going to say they’re positive and they’re like, yeah, absolutely. I’m going to talk to my husband. I’ll call you back. I’m going to continue walking through this process. Hey, when you call me back, what do you think that conversation’s going to sound like? What can I expect when you call me back?

Ryan:
Do you ask when to expect a callback?

Jennie:
I mean, yeah, I think so. Obviously we want to kind of set some expectations because the biggest way that relationships fail or unmet expectations. So hey, when can I expect a call from you? I want to make sure that I’m available not at an appointment. It’s important to me that I serve my customers at the highest level and that I live by our core values and this experience for you matters the most to me. So I’m just going to communicate all of those things that matter. When can I expect a call from you? What do you think that call is going to sound like? What happens if he says yes? What happens if she says yes? What happens next? So I’m always kind of getting them thinking about what that next step is and what are the steps down the funnel that they’re going to have to take so that they’re prepared for whatever comes their way.

Rob:
You are listening to a special episode of the BiggerPockets Real Estate podcast from our friends at Deal Machine. You’ve already heard so many useful tips from Jenny about how to talk with potential buyers, and there’s a lot more on the way right after the break. Welcome back, everybody. Let’s pick up where we left off on this bonus episode from Deal Machines Real Estate Investing podcast.

Ryan:
I think that the next one that I want to ask about ties in very good with this first objection because to me it’s similar and we get it all the time. Weekly, I get this exact same response, the I need to think about it or let me get back to you. Typically when that happens to me, I kind of feel exactly like you explained. That is a smokescreen, and I typically try to press a little bit harder. I’m like, well, what part of that do you need to think about? What is the hiccup? But even then I’m like, I still don’t feel like I’m able to cut through the smokescreen and get to what the real thing that they’re getting hung up on. And so what is your coach on what to say when they’re like, yeah, let me think about it. I’ll call you back.

Jennie:
You see my smile? I know you do. My face just lit up. Actually, I love this objection. I have quite a bit of different talk tracks for it. I think the one most known objection that’s kind of out there is, Hey, when you say you need to think about it, what does that mean? Right? Getting clarity on their language, because I don’t want to just assume what that means. I want to get clarity. So the first one, Hey, when you say that, what does that mean? And then one of my personal favorites is, Hey, I had a mentor. Tell me more. Time doesn’t always equal a better decision. Usually more information does. What haven’t we talked about? What questions have you not asked that you need to ask? What haven’t we talked about? I love that talk track. That one’s one of my favorite. And then also, I’m going to go, I’m going to continue going, Hey, usually when I get met, what I need to think about it is people’s polite way of saying no.

Jennie:
That’s another really great one. I kind of like, listen, I get it. It’s not every day that you sell a house. This is a big decision for most people. Ultimately. Mrs. Jones, what’s the it parentheses? What’s the IT that’s holding you up? I got two more. Hey, I totally understand that you need to think about it. My job is to give you all the information that you need to figure out what you need to do next. It sounds like I failed to do that at this point. Can you let me know what I missed? Right? I must have missed something.

Ryan:
I also think that triggers some sort of sympathy. They don’t want you to feel bad like, oh, no, no, no, you did fine. And then they may even get to a point where they start talking about real details. No, really, I got to talk to my grandson about it because blah, blah, blah. Then they start getting to more details, basically defending, no, you didn’t do anything wrong, it’s just that I have this piece to deal with and that piece they hadn’t informed you of. So by giving them that, Hey, is there something that I missed or that I didn’t give you? That just triggers a, in some cases it’s not always, but in some cases it triggers a sensitivity. They’re like, oh, no, no, it’s not you. I just need to get this piece done as well. And it may give you another opportunity to uncheck or check a box that was not checked before that point.

Jennie:
Absolutely, and I think it’s important to identify, usually when in the process this happens, we’ve been with this customer face-to-face, belly to belly for 45 minutes to an hour at this point. So I may say something like, Hey, we’ve been at this, we’ve been talking for 45 minutes or for an and 15 minutes at this point. I would not rest tonight knowing that I didn’t serve you to the highest level and walk away knowing there’s something that you didn’t ask me or there’s something that you didn’t tell me that could allow me to support you better. So what is it that’s not being said? I can kind of tie to their opportunity cost and their investment in the conversation We have together invested mutually an hour and 15 minutes of talking through the painstaking elements of your process. I wouldn’t feel right leaving knowing that there is something here that was not said. I’m not doing my job if I leave you

David Lecko :
With this. I like that because it doesn’t put pressure on them to make the decision, but it still does uncover something that they’re not telling you. So that’s really, really smart. The third seller objection that we wanted to cover today is I’m not ready to sell, but I want to hear your offer and the place I heard this first was on the third deal that I’m doing. It was two doors down from a house of my second deal where I was renovating it. I noticed a tree had fallen on the house two doors down, and so I actually skipped trace to get the owner’s phone number and she had moved two hours away. It turned out to go help her daughter who’d had a baby and gone through a divorce and she was not ready to sell. In fact, she had no idea this tree fell on her house.

David Lecko :
She had her hands full tending to her daughter. So she actually did want to know what I could offer her to just walk away from the house. But she told me, she’s like, I’m not mentally prepared to sell. I actually gave her an offer and she went silent for a whole week and ultimately I followed up about every day or every other day and nothing was too pushy. One day I probably said the eyeballs emoji, basically like, yo, did you see the last text or something like, I’m here can cash you out within two weeks. All I just need to hear from you is that you’d like to move forward, things like that. And she ended up accepting my offer, so I’m really glad that I went all the way through and gave her an offer even though she wasn’t ready to sell. I’m curious, Jenny, how do you handle those situations? This might also be like a tire kicker type situation where I knew the tree with her was kind of an issue, but sometimes people respond and they say this and they don’t have a tree falling on their house and they’re just kind of like a tire kicker. They want to know what the value of their house is without actually wanting to sell it.

Jennie:
So I’m going to go back to, Hey, I’m not ready to sell. I want to hear your offer back to, Hey, when you say that, what do you mean? Right? Tell me more. Right? Those are always two really great, just open-ended. Expository answer questions. What do you mean? Tell me more. Usually when I get this customer, I’m not ready to sell. Hey, listen, usually when I get met with I’m not ready. It’s really one of three things. It’s the price, it’s the process or me it’s me. That’s one of my favorite go-to responses because now we’re going through and sifting through, is it me? No, it’s not you. Then it must be the process. No, it’s not the price. So then it’s the price, and so we can kind of get that response out of the way for the tire kicker. For the tire kicker, I would say, Hey, can I be a hundred percent open with you? I don’t like saying honest. This is just a nugget. We don’t say honestly in conversation because it makes it sound like we’re dishonest, honest

David Lecko :
And other kids. Yeah, exactly. I totally agree.

Jennie:
So we don’t use the words if I’m honest or honestly those are not. So I say, can I be 100% open with you? Like unguarded, unbridled, can I be a hundred percent open with you? Hey, I’d really love to give you an offer today, but if you aren’t willing or ready to accept it, it wouldn’t do anyone any good. This offer’s only valid for 48 hours. Let me ask you this. Once you have an offer, what’s your next step even going to be?

David Lecko :
Totally and bring us home with that fourth objection.

Ryan:
I get this a lot too, or our team gets this a lot when we are doing the follow-ups. I can’t talk right now.

Jennie:
Okay, so this one I think like you said, is usually over the phone. If you have somebody who’s calling and setting appointments for you, you’ll get this on the front end side as well as in the follow-up on the back end. I like the talk track like, oh shoot. Hey listen, usually that’s people’s nice way of saying no. Let me ask you, do you actually want me to call you back and talk through your options for selling or are you just politely trying to tell me no, literally never call me back again because I don’t want to answer the phone. I try to have some fun with this over the phone and show my personality. I’m a goober, so I’m going to try to make ’em laugh. They want to hear a real human on the other end of the phone. So I’m going to change the inflections in my voice and I’m going to say, are you trying to tell me?

Jennie:
Literally never call me back again because I don’t want to answer. I’m going to lean in there just a little bit. I like on the, again, that was really more for the lead side on the front end again, on the front end. Hey listen, 99% of the time, that’s what most people say, and I totally understand. I’m calling you at a random time during your workday and you don’t know me from Adam, but listen, have you been exploring a cash offer or am I barking up the wrong tree? A talk track like that would honestly engage a seller because it doesn’t sound call centery, it doesn’t sound salesy. I sound like a normal human, and that’s one of the most important things that we can do on,

David Lecko :
Right? It’s sounding like a huge, not necessarily reading a script. I love that.

Jennie:
Yeah, I always, and again, I’m from the south, so saying something like, I know you don’t know me from Adam.

Ryan:
I was going to point out barking up the wrong tree. Can we clarify for people that aren’t from the south what that might mean?

Jennie:
Yeah, I don’t know. Is it a euphemism? Is that what they’re called? Essentially it just means am I wrong in assuming this? Have I identified something that’s not correct? Am I wasting your time and my time? Am I pursuing something that I shouldn’t be pursuing? Love it.

David Lecko :
Ryan, sorry to cut you off. We’ve got about 10 minutes in our slot, so I wanted to make sure we got to the last five objections. This other one, and please continue to finish that off. The fifth one is can you call me back? I’m just curious. It seems similar to this one. I can’t talk right now.

Jennie:
Yeah, so I’ve got a few more. So on the last one, I can’t talk right now or can you call me back? Hey, you’re probably in the middle of something. I made an assumption that you were free to talk. I apologize. Can you help me out real quick before you go, do you actually want me to call back and talk through your options or am I bothering you getting to something like that? I love that when they say, can you call me back? Sure thing. But listen, it’s just like we’ve called you a few times at this point and the story I’m telling myself is that I’m actually really bothering you and you don’t want to tell me the truth. Are you actually trying to sell your house or am I bothering you? So I’m going to change my tone and I’m going to lean in. I’m going to tell ’em what I know to be true. I like to use the actual number of calls. Hey, we’ve called you 47 times at this point. The story I’m telling myself is I am bothering the mess out of you and you just don’t want to tell me that’s true.

David Lecko :
Read number six.

Ryan:
What about when they go and say, well, before I do it, I need to do this, this, and this before I can accept an offer or sell it.

Jennie:
Hey, I kind of like asking the question, Hey, what do you expect will happen if you did those things before selling? What are your expectations? Once you do those things, what are you expecting will happen? I like the talk Trump.

Ryan:
They say, I’ll get a better offer if I do it. This happens, I get this one. Often they’re like, well, I’d get more money if I do this.

Jennie:
So most people in your shoes consider three main things, not just money, time, energy and money. Have you thought through how much time it’s going to take to pursue that? Have you thought about how much energy you’re going to have to expend doing that? And lastly, how much money do you think it’s going to take? And then I would say something along the lines of by investing that amount of time, that amount of energy and that amount of money, what do you think you’re going to get in return? Is it worth it? Does what you are expecting outweigh how much you’re going to have to personally invest in this? And then I would say, Hey, what happens if it doesn’t? What are you going to do if you go through all of this and the return doesn’t outweigh your investment? What are you going to do?

Jennie:
And then, yeah, I think that’s a pretty good, I love the time, energy, money talk track. That’s one of my favorites because people tend to only, especially even acquisition managers, this is a really important note for you guys going out and locking up deals, going face-to-face with a seller. It’s not just about the money. It is time that they have to invest time away from family time invested in this situation. It is energy expenditure. It’s not just active fixing the property energy, it’s the mental turmoil as well. Most things mentally are draining, so it’s time, energy, and money. We want to make sure we’re not just focusing on an offer that we’re really focusing on solving their situations and circumstances.

David Greene:
All right, we have to take one more quick break, but stick around for more from Jenny Husbeth and Deal Machine on this special takeover episode.

Rob:
Welcome back everybody. Let’s pick up where we left off on this bonus episode from Deal Machines Real Estate Investing podcast.

David Lecko :
So if they’re too focused on the money, for example, if they say My house is worth more, I can see this estimate is 50,000 higher than what you’re offering, Ryan, have you ever encountered that before?

Ryan:
That’s also one of those, it’s often, it’s a few times a month. We’ll go out, look at the property in our evaluation process, we’ve already determined what we’re going to spend on the rehab and figuring out the A RV. So to me it’s always like when they’re like, well, I looked it up on Zillow and it says this, and I’m like,

Jennie:
So this one usually this, when you get met with this, it’s because we haven’t addressed it earlier in our process, which is a misstep. So if you get met with this on the backend in your offer presentation and negotiation, it’s because you were out of process earlier. So I would be really mindful when you’re out and you’re going to this property at the beginning of your process to make sure that you say something along the lines of, Hey, listen, I was looking online and I noticed there were properties that ranged from 50,000 to 160,000 in the neighborhood. Where would you put your house on that scale? And so now you see, and I go to Zillow and I just pull the lowest number and the highest number in that square radius that it shows, and I’m going to tell ’em, Hey, I was looking online, this is what I saw.

Jennie:
What do you think about it? And then I keep moving forward in my conversation, what was the neighborhood like when you first moved in? So I kind of dropped that anchor of Zillow early, but if you get it on the backend, hey, you’re probably right. Usually we’re not first people’s option. It sounds like the most important thing for you is the retail value no matter how much time and energy and money that you have to invest in this. So let’s talk through that. Let’s talk through what that would look like if a realtor came out here, what do you think they would say?

David Lecko :
They always love to say, I’m not your highest and best offer, but if you want a quick offer and one that you can count on, I’m your guy. So I always say that at the beginning because I don’t have patience to deal with people who are going to be like tire kickers. And it’s really, it feels good to be transparent and honest in a world where so many people are getting into wholesaling, they’re wondering, should I tell ’em that I’m not going to be the highest offer and it just kind of relieves that stress I might be feeling. Just to wrap things up, got just a couple of minutes, so I’m curious, Ryan, could you read the next one real quick just to make sure we get through all 10? Yeah,

Ryan:
This your could happen and I’m not interested when you ask ’em if they would be interested in selling or you make your offer, I’m not interested.

David Lecko :
Yeah, I actually received a call from somebody Frank and he’s like, Hey, remove me from your list. And I say, Hey, no problem. What’s your address? And he says, you should have it. You mailed me, he called me. Yeah, exactly. So it took a while to get him to realize that I do mail a lot of people and just by his phone number, I don’t know who he is. And it ended up coming out that he’s getting so much mail, he’s going through a divorce and everyone’s trying to take advantage of him. And I asked later after I kind of acknowledged that that might be really frustrating. And I said, well, do you think at some point in your divorce process that you will need to sell your house? And he said yes. And so that was an amazing, I’m not interested turnaround that he was so mad that he finally was able to like, yeah, I probably will need to sell it.

Jennie:
Yeah, I think that that’s a really great talk track right there. You’re probably getting called 97 million times and you don’t know me at all. I figured you’d say something like this going down, that talk track of you’re probably experiencing a lot of this and I can imagine that that’s overwhelming. I’m not trying to be a thorn in your side. I’m a local investor who buys property in your area. Have you even considered selling this property or is that something that you’d want to talk about at all? I’m here to support you. I like that talk track. If they say I’m not interested, sometimes I play dumb, which I think maybe as a female it’s a little bit easier than necessarily as a male, but are you telling me that the information I have is wrong? Like, oh no. Oh no. This happens sometimes that most people I call or explore in a cash offer or at least considering their options to sell and I’m going to be quiet. So that’s like, Hey, most people that I’m calling, they’re exploring this. How do you think you wound up in front of my computer? And they’re like, I don’t know. Sometimes they may lean in, sometimes they may not.

David Lecko :
32nd fire round, here’s number nine, I’ve got an offer and somebody’s coming behind you to give me another offer.

Jennie:
So this one, this one is a tough one and this one is one of the most frequent ones that we’re getting, especially in these hyper competitive markets. So I would say, Hey, listen, I get it. Most people are willing to search for the highest offer. Most people are willing to search for the highest offer. That language is key. I think we want to just like the price, the Zillow, we want to attack this earlier versus later. So when we’re setting expectations with this customer, if we’re in a hyper competitive market, this is what I would do to set expectations. Hey, before we get started, is it okay if I tell you a little bit about what’s going to happen and what my experience is and buying these houses? And they’re going to be like, yeah, sure. Usually when I get started, most people ask me two questions.

Jennie:
What’s your process and what’s your offer? I definitely will answer those questions for you, but I also hope to answer a few more and I would say, what kind of company do I work for? What is my company value? What’s most important to me in this process is that I represent our company at a high level. I hold our core values and that this experience for you meets all of your hopes and expectations. Is it okay if I share some of those things with you also today as we walk through this process? So prompting it on the front end guys, most people in this situation go to, Hey, listen, I understand you’re fielding offers. If you could just give me a call once that person gives you an offer, I’ll match it or beat it. And honestly, you just affirmed in their mind that you are the sneaky sleazy salesman that they thought you were, that you’re the grandma house dealer that they perceived because you said you’re going to give them your fairest offer and then at the end you’re like, Hey, call me back and I’ll beat it.

Jennie:
We just affirmed that we are not trustworthy, we are not transparent, we are not genuine. I want to tell ’em, listen, I’m not in the business of doing the nickel and dime song and dance. I’m not here to penny you to death. I’m here to support you as you take this journey and you figure out what your next steps are going to be. I lean more into the experience than I do the offer every single time. You’re going to catch so many more flies than that way with honey than vinegar. So we want to hear more about the person and their experience than we do about the end result, the offer.

David Lecko :
Okay, last one. Unfortunately we’re on time, but I bet I can talk Jenny into doing a 62nd video for Instagram at dco. We can collaborate on it for this 10th one, so go check that out there. Jenny, thank you so much for showing us the way that you’re navigating these sales conversations in an organization that’s doing a thousand plus deals. And you guys should follow this podcast for more content like this to help guys get your first real estate wholesale deal. Jenny, where can people find you other than on our Instagram collaboration posts?

Jennie:
Yeah, absolutely. You guys can find me at r ei sales tools.com or you can email me at jenny J-E-N-N-I-E at r ei sales tools.com.

David Lecko :
Thank you, Jenny.

David Greene:
Alright, thank you all for listening. That was the Deal Machine Real Estate Investing podcast, and we want to thank Jenny David and Ryan for teaching us these priceless techniques to gracefully get sellers to say

Rob:
Yes. If you’d like to get in touch with David Ryan or Jenny, you can find their contact information in the show notes for this episode and make sure you hit the follow button for this show, the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast on Apple or Spotify. Oh yeah, and one more thing. Henry Washington and I had a very inspirational conversation with an investor named Ika Lynn Smith, recently on episode 8 83. If you want to hear how she uses Talk track CDs to break through seller hesitancy, then you’re going to want to give that episode a listen.

David Greene:
Thanks Rob, and it really is a great discussion. Again, that’s episode 8 83 for Rob Abba. I’m David Green, and we’ll see you in the next episode of the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast.