May New Builds Harm Your Market? These Areas Are Most at Danger

Dave:
How assured are builders in at this time’s market? Each single month we get new knowledge that tells us precisely that, and also you would possibly really be shocked what the numbers say and the ways in which they may impression you, even in case you’re not a builder and by no means wish to construct a home in your life. Hey everybody, it’s Dave Meyer, host of On the Market, and at this time I’m joined by BiggerPockets Knowledge Analyst, Austin Wolf, to interrupt down the most recent builder sentiment report and what it means for consumers and traders. We’re taking a look at which markets are seeing surges and permits and the place builders are betting huge, and we’ll additionally dig into what this implies for the way forward for costs, stock, lease progress, and what’s occurring within the new residence market and with builders can really spill into the broader housing marketplace for purchase and maintain and flipping traders. So let’s get into it. Austin Wolf, welcome again to the podcast. Thanks for being right here.

Austin:
Glad to be right here, Dave.

Dave:
Alright, effectively we’re going to be speaking about builder sentiment, builder confidence, what’s happening in development, however let’s be actual, most of us will not be builders. I’ve by no means constructed one thing from the bottom up. I don’t assume you’ve both. So inform us why does this even matter to the typical actual property investor who’s most likely simply doing purchase and maintain? There could also be some flip investing.

Austin:
I feel it issues both in case you are an current investor otherwise you’re attempting to get your foot within the door. It issues each methods. If builders are optimistic, they’re going to be constructing extra buildings, meaning there’s going to be extra provide coming your approach. And if demand progress stays fixed, however there’s extra provide, that places a downward strain on costs. There’s simply extra buildings for individuals to purchase. I noticed that personally after I was buying a home in Fayetteville. There’s loads of development there. Builders are very optimistic in that exact market, so there was so much to select from, which suggests builders gave me concessions and in order that was good for me to get my foot within the door. Conversely, now that I’m an current investor, I’m now feeling the opposite facet of that. Homes there aren’t going to understand as a lot as they’re in different markets the place they’re not constructing as a lot. So whether or not builders are optimistic or pessimistic nationally. After which after all in your native market, that’s going to have an effect on value progress and in case your homes are going to be appreciating sooner or slower,

Dave:
And as you stated, it’s going to be very regional. So we’re going to speak about at this time loads of traits, however I feel Austin’s ready some actually good analysis for all of us to grasp type of what’s occurring on a nationwide stage as a result of that after all issues. It does. Plenty of the house builders are nationwide. The massive ones most are publicly traded corporations, however clearly we’ll speak about among the areas too. However why do we want to consider builder sentiment and confidence fairly than simply the information? It sounds a bit of fluffy or mushy to speak about. It’s not like arduous knowledge. So why can we measure this and what’s necessary about this versus monitoring permits or development begins or one thing a bit of bit extra

Austin:
Tangible I feel is necessary to trace the tangible metrics, however they don’t inform you every part. For instance, one of many, I suppose downsides of the information that I’ll be going over additional, how a lot development has really began in Q1 of 2025. One of many downsides of that’s it’s potential {that a} market circumstances have modified because the time they bought their allow permitted and the time that they broke floor. So even when they bought a allow in center of final 12 months or the tip of final 12 months and so they began development this 12 months, market circumstances may need modified and so they may be extra pessimistic, however they have already got the financing in place and so they’re going to proceed constructing anyway despite the fact that they’re a bit of pessimistic. So they could construct much less sooner or later despite the fact that they’ve already began setting up proper now.

Dave:
This can be a basic instance of a lead indicator. It’s one thing we speak about in economics knowledge. It’s one thing that helps us predict future knowledge. We don’t know precisely. It’s not a one-to-one ratio, nevertheless it offers you clues about what’s going to occur. So hopefully you may see from what Austin’s instructed us to this point that the sentiment confidence knowledge, it’s good for predicting what’s going to occur in development. Development actually issues for each investor, whether or not you’re constructing or not. So possibly give us some historic context to what’s been happening with builder confidence during the last couple of years.

Austin:
So the index is rated from zero to 100, 100 being probably the most optimistic, zero being probably the most pessimistic. Something beneath 50 is on the facet of pessimism. Something above 50 is on the facet of optimism. Now, from the center of 2020 to the center of 2022, we had builder sentiment of about 80. So builders had been extraordinarily optimistic throughout that point and so they constructed so much, which I’m certain is not any shock to anybody. After which when rates of interest hiked in the midst of 2022, that builder sentiment dropped drastically. And ever since then it’s type of been oscillating between, it is a tough estimate, however between 35 and 55, relying on seasons, relying on tariffs, relying on development prices, relying on loads of issues, it’s actually arduous to pinpoint why it’s oscillating, however it’s oscillating between 35 and 55. As of proper now, the builder sentiment rating is 40. So builders are a bit of extra pessimistic, however they’re not utterly pessimistic. They had been when rates of interest had been first hiked in 2022.

Dave:
So 50 is regular, proper?

Austin:
Sure. 50 is impartial.

Dave:
The long-term common, principally.

Austin:
Sure.

Dave:
Yeah. And so I suppose the factor that all the time type of confuses me about this, and I feel clearly the reply goes to be macroeconomic circumstances, however we hear a lot that there’s this scarcity of housing in america. So is it simply rates of interest like constructing prices that’s inflicting decrease sentiment? As a result of it looks like type of in case you actually zoom out to the broadest potential lens, builders needs to be feeling fairly good in the event that they know that we want loads of housing within the us.

Austin:
Yeah, affordability additionally issues. Sure, there’s demand for housing, however there’s loads of demand for inexpensive housing and in case you are solely capable of construct a constructing that’s a lot increased than the median residence value to your given metro, you’re going to have much less demand for it. So issues like rates of interest have an effect on individuals’s talents to purchase a home, issues like inflation, and in addition issues like tariffs can have an effect on demand for these homes as a result of costs will rise. In order that impacts builder optimism or pessimism.

Dave:
Alright. One query once you take a look at the sentiment, we now have most likely individuals on the present construct a pair homes, construct a pair multifamily. Is it that or is that this actually the massive guys?

Austin:
These are principally the massive guys. For those who’re a house builder and also you had been reached out to fill out this survey, I suppose you’ll be thought-about one of many huge guys. However in case you construct one residence each single 12 months, you’re most likely not included on this survey. So these are primarily the massive guys. I’m certain that there are center dimension and probably even small dimension builders in there as effectively, nevertheless it’s actually simply the massive guys. So

Dave:
Simply hold this in thoughts, in case you had been speaking to a smaller builder, possibly do city infill one or two plots a 12 months, possibly they’re a bit of extra nimble, they will get offers extra effectively and that they’re doing higher or possibly they’re doing worse. They don’t have the leverage to purchase supplies at cheaper prices and they also’re much less environment friendly. So hold that every one in thoughts. So once you’re taking a look at this knowledge, Austin, it’s simply a median, proper? You don’t know which builders are assured, which aren’t, proper?

Austin:
That’s appropriate.

Dave:
Ah, that’s too unhealthy. I want we may discover out questioning if there’s just a few persons are actually bullish and a few persons are actually bearish. That simply looks like the financial system proper now. Some persons are actually excited concerning the inventory market as of late. Some persons are actually pessimistic about it. And so I’m simply questioning if the typical doesn’t absolutely mirror the variety of potential opinions from

Austin:
Builders. I’m joyful you introduced this up as a result of that’s what I feel is going on. Once you take a look at the builder sentiment and it’s been oscillating over the previous three years, that’s what I feel is being mirrored there. Builders being extra assured and builders being much less assured. Such as you stated, some builders are possibly considering, okay, rates of interest are what they’re, however individuals nonetheless want a house to dwell in. Folks nonetheless wish to purchase. There’s nonetheless going to be demand, whereas different builders are much less assured in that. So the place you’ve been at over the previous three years mentally with regards to your actual property investing is probably going the same thought course of that builders are having as effectively. Ought to I construct proper now? I don’t learn about these macroeconomic circumstances, possibly let’s wait it out one other six months. Whereas possibly different builders are like, screw it, we’re constructing now. And in order that’s I feel probably one rationalization of why this builder competence has been oscillating between type of 35 and 55 between pessimism and a extra impartial stance.

Dave:
So let’s speak a bit of bit about among the regional traits. I assume you may’t get that from sentiment knowledge. So do you need to take a look at development permits to grasp and dig into type of the regional variations?

Austin:
Sure. Sure. We don’t get the builder sentiment on the regional stage. So as a substitute what I checked out was first constructing permits.

Dave:
Okay,

Austin:
After which second, what number of models began development in Q1?

Dave:
All proper, so what are you seeing in there? Largest, broadest traits. We’ve talked so much concerning the southeast, it was scorching, now it’s slowing down. What are the massive belongings you’re

Austin:
Observing? So in case you take a look at the permits that had been permitted in Q1 of 2025, I then examine these to the permits that had been permitted in Q1 of 2024, similar time final 12 months. And what I discovered was actually attention-grabbing, Orlando had the very best distinction between permits permitted this 12 months and permits permitted final 12 months decline, proper? Improve.

Dave:
Oh, they’re nonetheless constructing extra in Orlando.

Austin:
Okay. They’re nonetheless allowing extra in Orlando, which blows my thoughts. That’s

Dave:
Shocking,

Austin:
Very stunning. What that tells me is no less than a very good variety of builders there assume that demand goes to proceed to develop on this market and catch up.

Dave:
Effectively that’s really attention-grabbing. Somebody was telling me on one of many podcasts lately about how inland Florida is definitely doing effectively since you hear this stuff about Florida usually and loads of the persons are being pushed off the coast due to increased insurance coverage premiums. The condominium markets are falling aside and loads of elements of Florida, however maybe that is intrastate migration the place persons are transferring off the coast, Orlando, which has much less danger of pure disasters and possibly doesn’t have the identical insurance coverage premium will increase. Possibly that’s simply doing effectively. Anyway, shocked to listen to that regardless.

Austin:
Yeah, we’ll speak extra about Florida on the finish of this. Okay, very, very attention-grabbing knowledge

Dave:
There. Yeah, yeah. I’m curious.

Austin:
Okay, so what else? Quantity two was Lafayette, Indiana and Lafayette Indiana. It’s about an hour outdoors of Indianapolis. It’s the place Purdue College is and so they’ve been rising like loopy, no less than the metro space has, there’s a giant analysis park there. The school is constant to develop and it’s simply outdoors of Indianapolis, which is without doubt one of the quickest rising Midwest markets in America proper now. They’ve had a report breaking variety of permits permitted over Q1. Essentially the most quantity of models they’ve ever permitted in a given 12 months was 2000. That was in 2023. They permitted 2000 models to be constructed Q1 of 2025. They’ve already permitted 1800 models. Oh my god, virtually their earlier report in a single quarter. In order that they’re heading in the right direction to approve probably the most quantity of models they’ve ever had this 12 months.

Dave:
So how do you make sense of this? Since you hear lots of people, particularly on social media going on the market and saying, oh, simply comply with what the builders are doing, comply with what Starbucks is doing or Lowe’s is doing. I’ve by no means completed that. I suppose it is smart to me in some respects that these individuals have loads of analysis. They’ve most likely total analytics groups doing this, however after I hear that I’m run from that market, that simply worries me. So how do you interpret that?

Austin:
Yeah, effectively bringing it again to the start of this dialog, when there’s extra provide, it places downward strain on costs. So possibly that’s good in case you’re a totally new investor and also you wish to get your foot within the door, there’s about to be a wave of provide in these markets, which builders will possible have to supply concessions simply to promote their properties.

Speaker 3:
However

Austin:
On the flip facet, your property goes to understand slower than it may in case you invested in virtually every other market with good demand.

Dave:
I simply wish to type of clarify possibly mechanically how a few of these issues may spill into the broader housing market. So simply on this instance that we’re speaking about right here, Lafayette, Indiana, possibly there’s sufficient demand to fulfill the availability understanding actually nothing concerning the metropolis. I’m already skeptical primarily based on simply Austin telling us that they’ve already virtually meet their report within the first quarter. However you would possibly say, okay, I’m not focused on new builds. I already personal rental properties there. The best way it may spill over is principally that, like Austin stated, loads of these builders are going to start out providing concessions and they’re not like different sellers that they’re not going to be affected person. They’re going to try to be very aggressive in providing concessions and transferring stock as a result of they’ve loads of money locked up into these offers. And so when that occurs, it makes the relative worth of current properties go down.
As a result of I feel usually talking, for almost all of individuals, all issues being equal, in case you’re offered with a brand new residence and an current residence with related options in the same location, you’re going to choose the brand new residence. And so in case you see new residence costs begin to fall, that may actually spill into the present market in regular instances earlier than the pandemic, new properties made up solely 10 or possibly 15% of residence gross sales. However since stock is so low, that has actually climbed. And that’s type of why I’m excited to speak to you about this Austin, is as a result of the impression of recent residence gross sales on current properties, for my part, has grown and goes to remain excessive so long as this development knowledge stays excessive. In order that’s one factor. The second factor is that if these residence builders aren’t capable of promote stuff, they could begin renting them out and that might have an effect on the rectal market. However except you’ve seen any knowledge about that, Austin, I feel we’re most likely nonetheless a couple of steps away from that.

Austin:
I feel we’re a couple of steps away from that, however I’ll hold my eye on it. That will be very attention-grabbing.

Dave:
Okay, nice. And I type of went on this diatribe about Lafayette, Indiana. Inform us another regional traits you’re seeing.

Austin:
Yeah, for certain. Columbus, Ohio was quantity three on the checklist, which is attention-grabbing. They permitted probably the most quantity of models. Final 12 months it was virtually 14,000 new models they permitted in 2024. As of Q1, they permitted simply over 4,000. So if they allow 4,000 per quarter for all 4 quarters, they’ll beat the report this 12 months for an estimated 16,000 models. In order that’s attention-grabbing. We’ll see in the event that they beat the report this 12 months for many quantity of models permitted. However I feel the story there’s in case you’re an investor, you’ve most likely heard of Columbus, Ohio, and so have all of the builders and so have all of the individuals which are transferring there. So I feel it’s a fantastic market with good fundamentals, however the phrase is out, so that you’re going to face some competitors

Dave:
There. Alright, effectively Austin, this has been a fantastic overview of builder sentiment and a few regional traits. I wish to get into some questions on what traders ought to do with this knowledge for their very own portfolio and their very own investing, however we do need to take a fast break. We’ll be proper again. Welcome again to On the Market. I’m right here with Austin Wolf speaking about development knowledge Earlier than the break, Austin enlightened us with some sentiment telling us that though we’ve seen actually oscillating assorted shopper sentiment during the last couple of years, it’s comparatively down proper now at a 40 the place 50 is regular. And so Austin, I’m curious in case you may simply inform us a bit of bit about are there markets that you just assume are ripe for alternative or does this normal development setting offer you pause about investing, not essentially constructing, however simply individuals investing when there’s this danger of oversupply, no less than in among the markets you shared with us.

Austin:
Before everything, I all the time assume by way of demand, are individuals transferring? There are jobs going there. I like to consider that first. If the reply is sure, then I might additionally contemplate taking a look at provide. Okay, is the phrase out? What number of builders are constructing homes right here? How simple is it to get new provide on-line? How simple is it to construct? For instance, the best market I can speak of is Fayetteville, Arkansas. I lived there and purchased a home there.
And the expansion there that’s occurring is it’s intimidating. Giant numbers of persons are transferring there and in addition it is rather flat and it’s so simple to construct there that a lot of new properties are presently being constructed there to soak up that incoming demand. So what I might counsel traders do is once you’re taking a look at demand, okay, nice inhabitants is rising, jobs are rising. However then I might additionally suggest both going to the constructing allow survey knowledge, which you’ll simply discover by Googling constructing allow survey after which discover what number of models had been permitted in your given market that 12 months. Or if you wish to make it simple on your self, possibly do what I did. Simply go to talk GPT and ask what number of models are being permitted to your given market. And it’s not too unaccurate, I’ll put it that approach. Simply check out what number of buildings are going up after which possibly take a look at a couple of different markets simply to get a way of, okay, Austin is constructing this quantity of models. Orlando is constructing this quantity of models. The place does my market match into that? Are they even reaching these numbers?
St. Louis isn’t, okay, nice, possibly they’re not constructing as a lot as Kansas Metropolis and possibly persons are transferring to the suburbs there. Possibly it shouldn’t mud within the suburbs. There look like loads of jobs rising in that particular space. In order that’s what I might suggest for traders. Keep watch over demand, but in addition control provide.

Dave:
That’s nice. And actually, it’s really easy now with chat GPT, it’s wonderful that you could possibly do that. I all the time have discovered absolute provide numbers a bit of complicated 2000 models. What does that imply? It’s like that might imply something. So I do know you and I’ve talked about this previously, however I suppose there’s methods to match it. I’ve seen individuals examine variety of new models to the variety of current models. That’s a typical strategy to do it. I’ve seen individuals examine it to the variety of new jobs which are created. I’ve seen it in comparison with inhabitants progress. Is there a approach that you just favor to do it?

Austin:
Once I ran this evaluation, I initially did variety of new models being constructed divided by the entire quantity of models.

Dave:
Okay,

Austin:
So what % The overall provide is coming on-line

Dave:
To progress price. Mainly you’re simply determining how rapidly it’s rising in comparison with current dimension.

Austin:
And I do actually like your suggestion of evaluating variety of new models to the variety of new jobs within the space. I feel I’ll do this for my subsequent evaluation. That’d be very attention-grabbing to see what occurs.

Dave:
Okay, nice. So what did you take a look at this? Do you assume there are markets with explicit alternatives as a result of they’ve a few of these sturdy fundamentals, however comparatively low ranges of constructing?

Austin:
I first appeared on the variety of markets which have the very best % of development, and what I discovered blew my thoughts and I couldn’t imagine it. And I feel that there’s a story there, however I’ll first speak concerning the markets that didn’t blow my thoughts. The markets which have had probably the most quantity of recent development in Q1 of this 12 months in comparison with their whole quantity of models are Provo, Utah, Kansas Metropolis, Missouri, and Richmond, Virginia. And in case you’ve heard something about Utah, it’s a quick rising market and Provo is the place one of many huge schools is and so they simply merely don’t have sufficient housing models there. And so builders try to repair that. Kansas Metropolis can also be rising, so no shock there. After which Richmond, Virginia, capital of Virginia, and there’s loads of finance jobs there. I haven’t completed a deep dive into that but, nevertheless it may be price taking a look at if builders are fairly assured in individuals transferring there. I’ll say this knowledge is only for multifamily knowledge. The info I’m particularly speaking about proper now, this doesn’t embody single household properties. It solely features a multifamily properties.

Dave:
Is it simply that the information isn’t out there or simply that’s what you checked out?

Austin:
Yeah, so with allow knowledge, allow knowledge, you may break it out by single household, multifamily, duplex, attempting quadplex. I discover that very, very useful, which is why I all the time look there first. CoStar knowledge is the one which I’m speaking about. They solely deal with multifamily.

Dave:
That’s simply why. All proper. Effectively, we do need to take another fast break, however once we get again, we’re going to speak about the important thing takeaways for traders and what you need to tactically be serious about along with your portfolio. We’ll be proper again. Welcome again to On the Market. I’m right here with analyst Austin Wolf speaking about a few of our new provide facet knowledge and what traders needs to be doing about it. So Austin, in case you’re only a common purchase and maintain investor and also you personal a property or two, let’s say in a median Midwest metropolis, I’m going to choose Kansas Metropolis. For those who’re serious about shopping for, how would you utilize this info in knowledge to your personal portfolio?

Austin:
First off, I might simply double verify and be sure that there’s inhabitants progress within the explicit space that you just’re focused on investing in or possibly job progress and in addition take a look at the availability knowledge. So let’s say for instance, you picked Kansas Metropolis as a result of it’s a rising market. Effectively, Kansas Metropolis can also be one of many prime markets that has began development on probably the most quantity of models relative to its whole provide in Q1 for multifamily. So in case you purchase a multifamily constructing, you’re going to have some competitors from another multifamily builders. Nevertheless, single household buildings are a bit of bit completely different from multifamily. They’re a unique sort of renter.
These are those that need a yard. These are those that need airspace between their 4 partitions and aren’t residing subsequent to a neighbor within the subsequent wall over. So in case you are contemplating that market, you would need to go a bit of extra hyperlocal. Let’s say that they’re setting up loads of new multifamily buildings in Kansas Metropolis. The place are they really setting up them? In case you are in search of that single household or possibly even duplex, is it subsequent to or is it going to be subsequent to those new huge multifamily complexes that they’re constructing? If not, possibly that is going to work as a result of the individuals which are going to be renting in these huge multifamily buildings might not essentially be the renters that you will be attracting and your single household home.

Dave:
After which let’s run via an instance of a market maybe with reverse dynamics. I’m not going to guess one. I’d most likely guess fallacious. So possibly you could possibly present us with what,

Austin:
Oh man, most likely Los Angeles. They only make it so arduous to construct there. Okay, yeah, inform us about it. Yeah, the time it takes to get a allow permitted and to start out floor break after which possibly end it’s on common 4 years, which is without doubt one of the highest within the nation, no less than for a big market utilizing Los Angeles for instance, it’s arduous to construct there. Builders are going to be constructing much less there. So possibly you wish to choose a market with excessive demand, nevertheless it’s arduous to construct. For those who’re capable of get into that market, you’re possible going to see far more appreciation in that market than you’ll in say a Kansas Metropolis or a spot the place it’s simpler to construct

Speaker 3:
Like

Austin:
Fayetteville, Arkansas. So locations which are geographically constrained like Seattle for instance, or they’re sandwiched between the ocean and hills and the mountains. I’m going to make use of Salt Lake Metropolis for instance too. Possibly it’s a bit of extra friendlier to builders there, nevertheless it’s nonetheless sandwiched between a lake and a mountain. It would run out of room to construct, and so long as there’s demand there, costs will respect. So I might take a look at geographic constraints after which how pleasant is the metro to builders in the event that they’re not that enterprise pleasant. Blue states principally, in the event that they’re not that pleasant to companies and to builders, it’s going to take longer for builders to construct new provide, which implies that so long as demand is there, costs are more likely to respect sooner than in crimson states which are simpler to construct.

Dave:
In order that’s some nice sensible suggestions for what’s happening at this time. I’m curious, that is simply type of opinion. I’m questioning how you are feeling going ahead given the state of affairs with tariffs as a result of we hold listening to that it’s going to boost the price of development. I’ve heard every part from 10 to twenty% relying in the marketplace, 10 grand, $20,000 per residence, which is so much. And if this was some nice financial time the place wages are rising up so much and wages are going up, however they’re not rising up like loopy that possibly shoppers may eat that price. However I’m a skeptical that customers may eat that price. Does that imply, do you assume builders are going to construct much less or what do you assume occurs from

Austin:
Right here? I feel it’s arduous to say total. On common, we should always see costs growing throughout the board, after which after all we’ll have these localized variations, market to market

Dave:
Development costs will go up. However in case you don’t know if individuals can soak up that, does that imply that builders will simply take much less margin or are they going to attempt? I suppose that’s the query to me, proper? That is type of considered one of these basic questions on the way forward for the housing market is that if costs go up completely and we don’t know. We don’t know what’s going to occur, but when they do, if tariffs keep in place indefinitely, costs go up in development after 2008, there’s this enormous decline in development, are we going to see one thing like that? Or do you assume it’s possible that builders hold constructing and hold including provide and simply take much less margin? Possibly?

Austin:
I feel the extra friction that’s thrown at builders, the much less possible they’re to construct as a lot as they’re proper now. That’s all I can converse on at this second.

Dave:
Okay, honest sufficient. All proper, that’s good to know. I’ll simply say I don’t know both. I’m simply speculating. These are type of the massive inquiries to me that I’m going to be actually be listening to within the subsequent couple of months is that if we begin to see some decline in constructing at a time the place we would see inflation, that to me is the recipe for actually speedy appreciation within the housing market. Once more, I’m not saying that occurs, however I may see a world the place that occurs within the subsequent couple of months. I may see a world the place tariffs aren’t as unhealthy as the unique announcement, aren’t as intense as the unique announcement. Costs don’t go up that a lot, and possibly there’s not that a lot inflation and possibly constructing prices keep below management. So I feel you could possibly see either side of it. However I simply wish to share type of why I’m serious about it’s because this provide lever actually issues and which approach it’s swinging backwards and forwards does matter for the housing market within the brief time period and the long run.
It’s only a tremendous necessary component to the housing market, which is why we’re so joyful to have you ever on right here at this time, Austin. Thanks. All proper. That wraps up our deep dive into builder confidence with Austin Wolf. In case you are trying to keep forward of market traits and all the most recent headlines, make certain to comply with in the marketplace wherever you get your podcasts, and in addition subscribe to our YouTube channel the place we share unique content material and evaluation. You can even really subscribe to our weekly publication as effectively. We have now all this stuff. We don’t speak about all of it that a lot on the podcast, however we now have this YouTube channel. We have now a publication the place Austin retains you up to date and knowledgeable on every part occurring out there at this time. So make certain to subscribe to those issues that’re completely free, and we now have a ton extra info to maintain you on prime of every part that issues. For actual property traders, I’m Dave Meyer. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you subsequent time.